Portland Community College | Portland, Oregon

Let’s Talk! Disability and Social Justice Pt. 2 with Karry Kelley

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Hosted and produced by Carrie Cantrell. Produced and edited by Carrie Cantrell. Transcriptions authored by Louise Magarrell. Carrie and Miguel talk with Native Nations club leader Karry Kelley about Native Rights, #landback, water, and acknowledgements.

You can also listen to this episode on Spotify.

Transcript

Carrie Cantrell: Thank you for joining us on another episode of Disability Speak Out, PCC’s podcasts on Disabled culture. My name is Carrie Cantrell. Today I am joined by Miguel Chavez, fellow student advocate and student at PCC, as we talk to Karry Kelly, one of the directors of PCC Native nations club about what her perspectives and ideas are in pursuing justice for Indigenous students, as we continue to occupy Native lands. Listen here.

Carrie: Yeah, there’s been a lot of chatter out in the ether these days as well about connecting land acknowledgments to acts of revolution or support, or Na– for Native rights and Indigenous movements, wherever we happen to be. Obviously, we can’t have this conversation in a vacuum. That’s why we wanted to reach out to Native nations club, and just kind of see, what-what your position is on land acknowledgments. Why don’t we start there?

Karry Kelly: My name is Karry Kelly. I’m Paiute and Modoc from the Klamath tribes, and I’ve lived in Oregon my entire life. Well, I don’t have a firm position on land acknowledgments. The way that most people conduct a land acknowledgement, basically, is kind of a slap in the face to the Native community. People think that Native Americans don’t necessarily exist anymore. They equate Native Americans to, we’ll say, Ancient Egyptians, like the, you know, era of the pyramids. They once walked the earth, but they’re no longer with us. The way that most people conduct or, I don’t know, I would say, perform a land acknowledgement, the reason why they’re doing it is because it’s the hip thing to do now. Most don’t care, they don’t know what’s happening in the current day situation with Native nations in America, you know, North America or South America. It’s nice that people will take the time to see what tribes lived on the land that they’re referring to, because they know, you know, they’ve taken a few minutes to Google who used to live here. Maybe, if you’re trying to make some sort of an impact with a land acknowledgement, maybe you can try to find out what tribes are still here and reach out to them and say, Hey, listen, my name is – and I’m with –. And we’d like to give a land acknowledgement, but we want to know who we’re talking about, and what’s happening in their lives right now. Like you said earlier, there’s social justice issues, there’s economic issues, there’s, you know, just straight social issues. So addressing those issues, along with saying that these people used to live here shows that you care, rather than saying, we took your land, we know that you used to live here, thanks. The government did almost succeed in making the Native Americans extinct, you know, we have between one and 2% of the population of the United States. Before occupation, there were over 100 million people who lived here. Look at some history and look at the people that you’re talking about, and share that. If you want to show more support than simply stating that somebody used to occupy these lands before the people who do now, think about what you would like to support, and make people that you’re talking to think about supporting Indigenous peoples. Whether it’s here in the Americas or in another country/continent. Which is what I think the point of a land acknowledgement should be, is to get people to understand that Native Americans still live here and that we should be thinking about how to make them as comfortable as anyone else that lives here, opening up equal opportunities for school, employment, housing. I don’t know how you would summarize all of that into a three-to-five-minute land acknowledgement.

Carrie: Do you see land acknowledgments as a political statement, or something that you think is coming from more of an emotional place?

Karry: I think that people and agencies that open with land acknowledgments are doing it because they think they’re supposed– it’s become policy. Just like, I think that it’s just, most people when they do a land acknowledgement, it’s because they’re following the rules. And it’s not so much that they care. And-and, uh, if you’ve witnessed a lot of land acknowledgments, a lot of them are quite insulting. I’m not so sure that it has anything to do with emotion.

Carrie: One of the reasons I ask, I think that sometimes slogans get put out there and repeated, passed back and forth. And when you see trends, like a land acknowledgement, becoming a hollow statement, and when we see hashtags out of statements like native rights, or land back. Having-having land back as a concept is an inspirational topic for some people who are not happy with what the United States of America looks like, and how it behaves, and how-how we just operate as a colonial country. On paper, like physical policies and actions, what-what would land back, as far as a concept, look like for you?

Karry: Well, land back is, uh, multi-level in definition. Number one, it would be what you think, land back: give Native Americans some land back, which would be really great. Like my tribe, when I was born, our tribe was terminated. We have since then regained our rights as a tribe, but they did not give us back our land. I can remember one of the happiest days of my life was enrolling as a tribal member in the-in the Klamath tribes. I believe I was 18 when this happened, I’m now 57. We have hunting and fishing rights on our ancestral lands, we also have what they call water rights. And the reason why I say “what they call water rights”, is we don’t have the right to march down to the river and dam it up, or take the dams that are there down, we don’t have the right to, uh, use large quantities of water. What we have the right to do is to be stewards over that water, and the farmers and the ranchers in the area do not like that. They steal water year-round, all day, every day. There’s one rancher out there, who publicly stated on Facebook, that “These damn Indians don’t deserve the right to tell me that I can or cannot use water, so what I do is I have my floodgates open 100%, 365 days a year.” And I did some calculations. It’s over a billion gallons of water that he’s diverting out of that river, and that’s just one rancher, one rancher. And so we don’t really have rights, we’re said to have rights, but we do not. The government doesn’t enforce any of the laws in place for the water usage. The EPA doesn’t go down there and check the fertilizer usage around the waters. The ranchers let their cattle and their horses trounce up and down the riverbanks, which they’re not supposed to be within, I believe, 30 yards of the river because of soil erosion. And all of that erosion ends up in the waterways. And it’s making the river and the lake more shallow, so all of the fish are dying. The sucker fish that live in there, which were a staple in our diet, our first foods, they’re almost extinct. We can’t even eat those fish anymore and you wouldn’t want to anyway with the state of the water there. So that’s what my lands look like, my homelands. Even though I live in Portland, that’s my home.

Carrie: As a native woman, you said you’re on campus right now, like, how do you feel when you walk on campus?

Karry: Just like the population in the United States, the student population is very low as well. I don’t know what the percentage of Native students, are, that are enrolled in any of the PCC campuses, but it’s not that high. When you have one to 2% of the population of the United States, it’s likely that you’re going to have that low of a percentage of enrolled students. It’s probably higher than one to 2%, because the dynamics of people who are enrolled in school are different than the general population. I rarely see Native students.

Carrie: Why do you think that is? Do you think there’s a way to decrease barriers for Native students Coming to higher education, or do you see, you know, higher education as not really a priority? One of the things that we have, you know, in our land acknowledgments today is, you know, we have a little tidbit that says, Portland is one of the– one of the cities with the largest urban Native population, and I understand that there’s many, many different nations and tribes.

Karry: Well, education amongst Native Americans, the Native American peoples would like school to be a priority, but economics is a big one that holds people back. Without an education, you’re working minimum wage jobs. And when you have a minimum wage job, and you have children, and you’re trying to make rent and all of that, it’s really difficult to execute, also going to school. And so among the people, it is a-a priority, but it’s one that you can’t get to because living is a higher priority, which is one of the reasons why I didn’t go to school until my 50s.

Miguel: Hi, my name is Miguel, I’m one of the other-other student advocates. My question to you is, like, if there was anything that PCC could offer as resources, you know, what, you know, what type of resources would you like to see, you know, maybe implemented in the future? What could PCC do to maybe, you know, add more resources?

Karry: PCC does offer a lot of resources for students in general. I think one way to help different groups’ financial situation, or different races or cultures, is you need to get it to the public, get it to– the information to the public, and to the people that you’re trying to share these resources with. Because if the people that you’re trying to help don’t know that you’re trying to help, they can’t say yes, please, I’d like to use your resources and take advantage of getting into school. So getting the word out there, I think is probably something that’s overlooked in most agencies, not just the schools, so you need to reach out to different communities, and make sure that they know about resources being offered, so that they can utilize those resources.

Carrie: People personally invested and– does it make a personal impact on you, when you see posters or events at school that are talking about Indigenous heritage month? Does that-does that hold traction for you, or does that feel weird?

Karry: It’s-it’s nice that, uh, PCC, or any other agency, different media outlets, acknowledge that-that it’s, you know, Indigenous peoples– I don’t even know what they call it. It-it doesn’t really affect me much [Karry chuckling]. But I mean, like, it’s, it’s nice that it’s– oh, Heritage Month, that’s what it is. It’s nice that they acknowledge that but at the same time, a lot of times, still hollow. Like I saw a blurb on TV saying that it’s Indigenous Peoples’ Heritage month, and they talked about some lame event that happened in history, and they said for more information go to our website. And to me, that just means come to our website, so that, you know, we can get you to buy stuff or do this or do that, you know?

Carrie: Yeah.

Karry: It’s just, I’m a little indifferent to it. Sometimes, uh, depending upon what is being said, what their message is, sometimes I’m angry by-by those, shaking my head, saying how stupid –some things are just laughable. Again, I think that’s another thing where it’s just a PC thing to acknowledge it, so that they don’t appear to be Pro-Columbus, right?

Carrie: What are some of the green flags that you register when you engage with a community or space or organization? What gets you to walk into a room and you feel comfortable? You nod your head, you’re like, Okay, these people seem pretty chill.

Karry: Well, I’m used to being uncomfortable. So if I want to go anywhere, I need to traverse the-the terrain that I’m entering, or going over. When the needle goes across the record when you walk into a room.

[Carrie Laughing]

Karry: You just keep walking, you just ignore it, you know? What I like? When I walk into a room full of people, whether it’s on campus or off, is when people don’t stop and look at you odd because you have braids to your knees. Or, um, they don’t, you know– is when you sit down next to them. “Oh, hey, you’re Indian, aren’t you?” You know, why do people do that? You know, it’s obvious. Anybody with hair that’s different than straight hair, you know, don’t-don’t touch their hair. If a man comes walking in with a nice, fuzzy beard down past his chest, you know, don’t go up and grab his beard. If you see somebody with, uh, cute little Afro-puffs, don’t go up and squish their Afro-puff. You know, if somebody has long braids, don’t pull on it.

Carrie: Does that ick factor come in? Say for example, the only Indigenous person in a room and like, you’re listening to a land acknowledgement, does it feel like, super, just cringe?

Karry: Yeah.

Carrie: Yeah! [Carrie laughing]

Karry: Yeah, um, though, when-when a situation like that happens, there’s definite eyes.

Carrie: Yeah.

Karry: Anyone who is native, and, um, you know, it’s okay with something like that, like, there’s a land acknowledgement happening and somebody is curious. It’s okay to ask, you know, a sincere question, because a lot of people will ask underhanded questions just to express their hate.

Carrie: Yeah. Kind of like playing dumb.

Karry: Yeah, yeah.

Carrie: People… yeah, people make you do that. People make you feel like that as a queer person too, especially back in North Carolina. [Carrie laughing]

Karry: Yeah. [Indistinct] if it’s different than theirs. So I have questions for you, both of you. I don’t know if you’re rewriting a land acknowledgement, or are you working on the school’s land acknowledgement?

Carrie: This is for our department. We’re with accessible education, Disability Resources, and one of the things that we’re advocating for as a cultural group is a cultural resource center in person on campuses, you know, much like you would see in the multicultural Resource Center and the Women’s Resource Center.

Karry: Oh!

Carrie: Right now, our community is all online and digital. So yes, we are seeking to rewrite a land acknowledgement, that we will make that acknowledgement at the beginning of digital presentations and workshops, and town halls and stuff like that. But we definitely want to be able to, as we go forward, shaping this community, we want to make sure we do it the right way. And-and not just, you know, check off the boxes, like.

Karry: Whenever I go to any public events, there is a land acknowledgement, and like you said, sometimes there’s a mission statement. But there’s never any equality statement, equality for all people, for people with different abilities; for people, you know, of different races and cultures, from different financial backgrounds. Isn’t that something that you think should be stated as well?

Carrie: You know, that is a great point. And yeah, I am absolutely in agreement with you. It’s- it’s something and– if you’re interested in collaborating, maybe it’s something that we could draft, you know, so thank you so much for that idea. That’s wonderful.

Karry: If you think of any other questions, you can email them to me, and I’ll try to answer them as best I can.

Miguel: When is the native club meeting? What are their-their meetings in person? Are they through zoom?

Karry: Um, they are on Zoom. Monday evenings from 6:00-7:30. And we have it that long because people come home at different times; are available at different times. So if you just want to pop in for five or 10 minutes and say hi and see if there’s anything fun happening, you know, or just to say hi, that’s okay. You don’t have to stay for the whole meeting. If you go to my announcements, you should see something in there.

Miguel: I would love to support and help out any way I can.

Karry: Thank you.

Carrie: Thank you, thank you, thank you, get home safely, stay warm, stay cozy, have a great evening. Bye Karry.

Karry: You too, bye-bye.

Miguel: Carrieee!

Carrie: Miguelll!

Carrie: Way to go!

Miguel: Good job.

Carrie: Thank you! Well I think that went really well, and I appreciate your-your input and interjections.

Miguel: Oh, no, I think, yeah, because that’s important for students to know and just to kind of, student involvement, and just kind of access in general so people can know where, know where to find them and how to get those, you know, other resources, you know. And I understand where she’s coming from because, I like, so I know somebody from the Nez, the Nez Perce, and so he was telling me, like, even more in depth the history of what happened, where like the dams are doing so much damage, like native lands, it’s pretty sad. And so I’m glad she shared that and shared her experience, you know, regarding, you know, the, you know, how she felt about the acknowledgement. You know, how they feel, because I talked to my friend, Robert, and he-he had a lot to say about it. I should have asked her about like the Arts and Cultures and what, like, art stuff she would want us, you know, she would want to see at PCC, because that would be super cool, just to kind of incorporate art into PCCs campuses. But I know it’s like, talk for her, talking about her feelings of how she feels about, you know, the campuses, you know, because there is a lot that goes into that. So how, what, how Robert explained it to me. So basically their land, it’s like, their, it’s their God, you know, so it’s sacred to them, like the trees, the soil, the water. It’s seen as, like, sacred and life conditioning. I mean, I learned a lot from him.

[Miguel Laughing]

Carrie: That’s really cool. Where did you meet Robert from?

b Um, he goes to Eastern Oregon University. Um, so I met him in the summertime when I was attending the Summer Bridge Program because he was the only Native student. So I got to learn a lot about it, and just kind of get to ask him questions. And this will be an interesting podcast, but it would be kind of harder to do. A lot of like – human trafficking happens in the Native nations and a lot of people don’t like– the people that are run, or the police, don’t do anything about it. So a lot of native women go missing, even the children. A lot of men go through like depression and suicidal pages, [indistinct].

Carrie: Thank you for joining us in that conversation. I’m going through a couple of different concepts that we can embrace as a culture, to support Indigenous cultures and Indigenous communities as we continue living in an unfair system and acknowledging it as we go along, working to make it better. Thank you again to Karry Kelly and the Native nations club at PCC. Miguel Chavez, you can check out his podcast Blindness 101, also on Spotify and all platforms, and also all the co-producers that make this podcast. Looking forward to our weekly meetings. If you are a student experiencing a disability and you want to contribute to this podcast, get in touch. We hope to hear from you soon!